In Conversation with Justin and Emily Chung

Thank you for having Zoe and I here. It's so special because your work has had a deep impact on us and really influenced our own taste in photography and interiors. So, that's where I wanted to start - for both of you - where do you think your sense of taste comes from? What's good, what's bad, whether it's in photography or clothing or how you're designing your house.

The one word that comes up often for me, and Emily brings it up a lot, is practical. Even my approach to photography has this documentary feel to it, I'm not really staging things. Even if it is staged or built, we're creating that moment to happen. It's rooted in this observational, practical, organic, everyday life quality. And as Em and I approached the house, we wanted a house that we could really live in organically and naturally with our kids and have their touches be a part of it as well.

It's the representation of us. It was important that you walk into the house and you see that we're here. We collect and the kids collect things - we have bags full of rocks and things like that and that was always something that was really important to us - you come in and it feels like there's people living here, kids and animals and everything. I love to use the term organized chaos. I feel like that's our lives and I think that's really what we were going for.

What makes an object feel of value to you? Whether it's the bags of rocks or furniture, how do you think about what you want to go into your house and what makes something feel like a special piece?

There's a gut instinct. For example, when I was in Japan, I bought this side table, right? I was at my friend's shop, he showed me around the space and then he showed me this (points to the living room coffee table) and said, oh, you should look at this. I looked at it and I immediately said, that would fit in my house perfectly.

His staff at the time went to go and get the wood swatches to show the different stains you can get, but by the time his assistant came back with the finishes, I already was like, that's the one. That was it. And the assistant was really taken aback by that and caught off guard, almost teary-eyed, because he was like, wait, how did they choose so fast? In Japan, the culture is that you research it, you measure it, you really plan for that piece to go into your house with a lot of intentionality. And I don't know how rare or often it is to happen so easily. But my intuition was that was it. The same way kids are - Vivian was like, that's my walking stick when we're on a hike. That's it. I'm getting that.

So, I think a lot of it's just our gut instinct and intuition. Whatever feels right, whether it's vintage or new.

As I'm looking around the living space, I’m curious if there are things that were intentionally set up in a particular way to generate a specific feeling? Or did it come together more organically?

The more intentional piece was the core design. Then we either had pieces or found pieces or people gifted us pieces that fit into it. It all just works itself out, I feel like it's meant to be. JB [editor’s note: the painter, Jereme Brian Mendez] gave us this painting and it was the first piece of artwork that we put in the house right after renovation. There's something really special about that because when we started the renovations, we didn't know JB, or he and Justin just recently met. It's fun to now have these moments where, you know, the tile in our kitchen, our friends handmade those tiles.

Emily and I put a lot of effort and time and work research on the perimeters. It took us forever to find the wood floors. Forever. It took us forever, well, not forever, but the windows were a big thing. Once we got the windows, the wood floors…

And stains. Oh my gosh, we took forever on those.

But once we got that, Emily and I were like, okay, cool. Let's have fun with this now. Our friends made the tiles, the paintings, and sometimes things don't even necessarily fit the style but we make it work. Vivian and Bastian wanted to start playing piano so we got that piano. There's no space for it, but we're going to make it work and it's here now. Vivian wants to get a guitar now so we'll get a guitar. We put a lot of work into creating the home, the structure, but now that we've created it, it's a little bit of a play lab. The ceramics have been a collaboration, the furniture has been a collaboration, but also the kids have artwork on the walls.

Nothing is too precious. We didn't build a house that we weren't going to live in. I mean, there's a massive ding on the corner.

We'll fix it.

We'll fix it. One of the lamps is falling because Bastian plays basketball, but that was the beauty of the house. It's not meant to be like don't touch anything, don't break anything. It's not this thing that you're supposed to take care of in such a way that you don't actually enjoy it.

I feel like even these dings in the wall and so on, they become part of the decor or even soul of the house because you walk by it and it's almost like looking at another object. There's where he hit his head or he threw this thing here. It adds layers into the beauty of the house as well.

Yeah, totally. When I was younger, I would hear stories of someone breaking a ceramic bowl or whatever and feeling the pressure and the sadness of needing to replace it and buy it and all that. I think Emily and I, our philosophy is the opposite. Things break, we'll just get a new one, or a wall gets dinged, it's whatever. Bastian looked at it and was like oh shoot, dang it, I'm sorry, but I'm like it happens, we'll fix it. That's what the house is for, that's just how it is.

Justin, you take so many pictures of other folks' interiors and homes and document others' lives. Has there been anyone or any particular home that has really influenced how you see yours?

The one house that deeply resonated with me and still does is Jens Risom's. He passed a few years ago now. I think he lived to 100 something, 101. Jens was an iconic mid-century designer.

Oh, yes, I read your profile about him.

So here's truly what happened, I'll tell you the story. I started Faculty Department as a passion of mine, just sheer coincidence of having studio visits and doing it by accident. It was just a personal hobby. Then, someone was like you should maybe turn this into a book. I didn't know what I was doing, but I remember talking to my friend Grant who now lives in San Francisco and I was like, Grant, if I get Jens Risom to be in this book or this project, I'm doing this book. And he laughed. He's like, that would be hilarious. That'd be amazing if you could, but that's crazy. But then he texted me one day as I was working on the book and he said, my classmate is at the Risom house in Block Island. You want to ask?

With that contact, I just persisted. I was like, I need to find a way to get in touch. I was able to finally get in touch with his daughter, Helen, who manages the estate, the foundation and all that. Among all the dates that she wanted to propose for a call to finally get to know her and talk to her, she threw out a date that happened to be our wedding day.

What a choice – my marriage or my idol?

Eventually I was able to get a hold of her but she immediately was like, Justin, awesome, thank you for the inquiry, but my dad is 95. We can't shoot him, he's already been photographed for everything already. Just go to the library. And I was like, I just need an hour. I was so persistent. That's how I was able to get him in the book.

I got a proof copy of the book when it was finished and I took the train and gave it to Jens right away as a gift. When I gave him the book - and he's, you know, 95 - he had his cane with him and he hit the wall. He wanted everyone to be quiet so he could give a speech. And he said, I would like to have a copy of this book in every library that I work with. And I would like to invite Justin and his family to spend time at the house. So they invited us to the house and Emily and I stayed at the house and lived with them. Helen was there with her grandson, we cooked with them, we ate with them.

I'm telling you, his house is legendary, right? Historical. But they don't…there's dings on it. There's burn marks. There's stains on the table from water or coffee. It was lived in and it had so much soul to it. It really hit me. I even cooked with them and nothing about it was like, oh, Justin, if you spill this, people are going to be upset because it's historical furniture. I had this feeling of just, let's just enjoy our time together. These things were all made with intent, but nothing about it was too pretentious.

I think one of the things that started to grow from that moment was the idea that well made things last forever. Not buying fast things. In our youth we buy IKEA because it's what we can afford, right? But the reality is this table (points to the coffee table) has been through a ton. We're buying things now that are made in such a way that they're going to survive our children and our animals and our lifestyle.

I've always found this to be interesting about objects - they will outlast all of us. Even a plastic bottle cap is going to be there way longer than we will.

One of the things that is fascinating to hear when you're describing this story is that when I look at your photographs, they're obviously beautiful and the interiors are beautiful and everything is this aesthetic dream. But, they are very human and it makes more sense now hearing you talk about that experience where you're like yes, this is like a beautiful space but it's more about whatever is happening inside of it and the way that you're moving through it.

You definitely understand my approach to it. I'm happy because even with your visit, it's not just you shooting the living room, dining room, whatever. You guys are getting a sense of how we live here.

Yeah, hanging out with your kids…

…and being with the chickens and Bastian playing basketball - this is truly how we live. Our dog waiting at the door for you guys. You're getting a glimpse of all the things that we enjoy about being here. It's a home.

What is the appeal of interviews and documenting for you? It sounds like there was one instance where you really got to experience someone's life that you were inspired by, but especially with Faculty Department, what do you love about it?

Honestly I think it's just my sheer curiosity of how I was raised, of not necessarily being around that many other different artists or creatives that were doing their own self-made initiatives. Growing up in San Francisco, born and raised with an Asian background…it's kind of a joke in our family, but my grandparents only knew three words: Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. I mean, you get it.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

It's your destiny. Growing up, I didn't know anyone that was an artist per se, but I was always inspired by that lifestyle. Once I got a camera and I started to get a glimpse of these people's lives, I was so drawn to how they created their lives. Not only their career path, but the actual way they live. Over the years it became my world. Outside of my personal home these artisans, these ways of living, these are the people that I would hang out with outside of work. It just kind of became my life.

I don't know if most people know, though you've talked about it before, that originally you were pursuing medicine.

When I met Em, I was premed. She's one of the few people that knew me before I even owned a camera or even talked about being a photographer. It was just all medicine.

When you were in that transition period of thinking about going into photography and starting to go into photography, I'm curious how that felt. Did you feel it was just a side passion? Were you fighting some internal dialogue about needing to have a practical career or was it very natural to you to be like this is it?

It's interesting you're asking me this because Em has been with me the entire process of this. It's a good question. I don't know if I was really scared of the transition. I was premed and Emily and I both got our masters in public health and we both moved to San Francisco. During that chapter when I was thinking about whether I should pursue medical school and whatnot, I got a camera from Costco.

I love that it was from Costco.

Truthfully, it took me a long time to save up and get that camera too. It wasn't like it happened so easily, like, I got a camera. I had to push for it.

What kind of camera was it?

Nikon D40. It was like 500 bucks. For me that was an expensive camera. I got that camera and I just started taking photos of Emily and my dog. I even showed my lifestyle work at a hair salon. I was just trying to figure out what photography meant for me.

Then Emily through a friend found that there was an opening for us to go to New York for four months to try it out. And I was like, okay, if we do New York this would be a really cool time for Emily and I and the four months would be my time to pursue photography. If it doesn't work out while we're there I'm gonna hit the books hard and go to medical school. I gave myself a four month window of, let's see if this works.

Though in reality, I don't think medical school was ever actually on the table. You were not really interested.

Truthfully, I was so determined to do my absolute best in New York, but also understood that it might not work, you know?

I actually remember meeting photographers, artists, actors, all these creative people. I remember meeting some of them early on in my four month trip there, then meeting them at the one month period and then actually serendipitously seeing them again toward the tail end of the four months. Some of them had to go back, whereas Emily and I, we ended up looking for another lease to stay. We were like we're already in, we're in.

What happened in those four months? Was it that you were getting work or you were finding you were in the flow of things?

He fell into menswear. Hashtag menswear!

I fell into this really amazing group of super aspirational, deeply passionate social media influencers, bloggers, people interning at fashion brands, people that were eager to sink their teeth into the men's fashion space. I was along for the ride documenting everything and as we got older they all started moving up in their industries or moving around, but we had such a strong camaraderie and we all took care of each other. I got my first job and it wasn't even money, it was a pair of shoes, but that led me to getting in GQ magazine.

I think I got extremely lucky falling into this really amazing group of friends in New York that were protecting me, hovering over me to make sure I didn't go back to the Bay Area. They were like, we're doing this. You're in this. You're in this with us. You cannot leave. And so fast forward to us staying there for about six years? Eight years. Once Em was expecting, we're like, okay, we're moving back to California. We just don't know where.

How did you meet this group of menswear enthusiasts?

It was just from one person to the next. That friend, the gentleman I told you that came over? [editor's note: before the interview began] He was part of that circle ten years ago. He came over. It was full circle. And we're all still close.

I think I got really lucky. Tumblr was really big at the time. And then my work started to shift a little bit in New York to do more interiors and lifestyle. When I came to LA, it was full lifestyle, I was not even doing fashion anymore. I think it's also where I started to excel the most because this is the work that was able to let me share a way of living rather than just clothing which is what I've always been drawn to.

Have you ever gone back and looked at the photos that you took from your first camera? Do you still have them?

Yeah, they're all on my Flickr!

How do you feel when you look at them?

Honestly, for me, I'm still learning. Even on set the past few days, I'm so drawn to how my assistants and the crew are lighting things and all the advice and suggestions that they are sharing with me. At the end of the day, I'm not super technical, I just like taking photos. And my team has been able to help me articulate the same kind of curiosity I had on my early work.

Was there a particular moment for you during this eight year period in New York where you felt like, I'm a photographer? Did it just gradually happen or was there a project where that feeling crystallized? 

Not many people know this, Emily knows this. When we were living in San Francisco before I was really able to land photography jobs, my biggest, biggest inspiration at the time was J.Crew. J.Crew catalogs to me were so well shot.

I have J.Crew catalogs from high school by my bedside table still at my parents house.

If you look back at them, if you really look at them, the reason why I think we all liked them is because they were selling a way of living. The clothing was in it but it's like they're skiing…

…running on the beach…

…and the photos, like Ralph Lauren's work, Bruce Weber's photography, it was not necessarily about the clothes but how people are feeling or living in them. I remember when I was in college they showed a black and white photograph of four or five women running on the beach, pretty much no shirts, just oversized jeans. The professor asked us, what is this? What are they selling? And we were like I don't know…sexy living by the beach? And then they throw the Abercrombie and Fitch logo on it.

It was telling a story. They're not really even selling the clothes, they're selling a lifestyle. That kind of storytelling and that kind of imagery really impacted me on how a photograph can represent and mean so much. Rather than just selling the clothes they can have a lifestyle representation. Ralph Lauren has done a great job with that. J.Crew, too. When I moved to New York, I was like, I really want to shoot for J.Crew.

I think once I landed a job with them I was like…I'm a photographer. Because for the longest time I was like, I don't want to hit them up. I don't want to hit up J.Crew. Hopefully my name, my work resonates so much to the brand that one day they'll hit me up. I didn't want to chase them down or knock on their doors. And when that finally came, I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.

I remember we finally shot it and my assistant at the time, Alex, he smoked a cigarette after everyone left at the studio. He smoked a cigarette and gave me a handshake and said "Congrats, mate." I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "Dude, you did it. You shot for J.Crew." And I was like, "Can you smoke in here?" and he said "Dude, you can do whatever you want. It's your set!" My name was on the outside of the door of the studio - J.Crew, Justin Chung. He was like it's your set you can do what you want and I didn't even know. It was that moment where I went, whoa, yeah you're right we can do whatever we want right now.

How were you feeling after that? Did you feel the gravity of the moment or was it too surreal?

I'm getting flashbacks thinking about it…I would see the catalogs as you saw the catalogs and now I'm looking at the viewfinder of my camera and it's the guys that I see in the catalog. I'm taking photos and then the model flings a coin up in the air and I'm looking up and he's like no, no, it's for you, it's for the photo. All those moments that I've been seeing in the catalog that I'm so drawn to, it's unfolding in front of my camera and now I'm the one shooting it. It was crazy.

So this moment happens with J.Crew and you're like I did this, I did the thing, I'm a photographer. From there was it just up and up or did you cycle back? Did you ever go back to questioning it again? Talking to both of you, you both seem like such optimistic people that are taking life and moving through it but were there moments even after that happened where you were wondering whether this was the right idea?

There was only one and it was when we moved here and things were really slow. It took Justin almost a year to really transition.

LA was difficult for me.

He thought maybe I'm going to have to consider a different avenue for this, maybe I have to go in house or something like that. But then it picked up.

I really had a hard time the first couple years here of redefining and reassessing my career path, how I'm going to pursue things, what does this next chapter in my life look like or what am I going to do here. I remember going to coffee shops early on - nearby where you guys are staying in Silver Lake - and trying to bring my notebook to do research on what I'm going to do and I'm observing people next to me watching Netflix movies. The lifestyle here was just different, you know the energy…

Because you had come straight from New York.

I came from New York and my mindset was so fast paced. It took me a while. I think the biggest mistake I made was trying to compare it and trying to find New York here. Whereas, you can't, you have to accept LA or wherever you are as it is. You can't compare it. Everyone says everything is spread out in LA. It's true. You can't take a subway and bomb around all these different coffee shops or meet all these people all over town like you do in New York. You just can't. And so you can't compare it. It's a different place. But again, I think I used the same approach I did in New York. I started from scratch, I stayed true to myself. Even though it wasn't as much lifestyle or fashion work, I found projects that resonated with me personally and just kept doing that. It always had to be things that I was personally drawn to.

Has the development of your photography style been pretty organic and intuitive over time or were there points where you intentionally wanted to move more in a certain direction? For example, you were saying when you got to LA the work was more interiors focused. Was that intentional?

I think I stay true to my style. I'm grateful that I feel like I'm just doing my thing.

Justin has always been very gut, he has a guiding compass. Early on, there were jobs that he turned down even though financially we could have used it. He was like, no, this isn't a good look or this isn't the right thing, this isn't the path I want to be on. He's always had that guiding compass, especially when it comes to his work and honestly it's always just organically worked out.

I feel like this optimism that you're talking about is born from that. So many of the decisions in the end turned out to be the right decision and so we just got to the point where we're like, we really do need to just trust our gut and trust our guiding compass and what's meant to be will be. I think that's where that optimism comes from and that's how he's always approached his photography and his style.

Earlier when we were having breakfast this morning, we talked about how nothing is perfect and there are times where I struggle with that concept because, for example when I make my books, it took me so long to make the first one because I wanted it to be quote unquote perfect. I wanted to find the right printer. I wanted to find the right balance of stories to tell and find the right writers to collaborate with. But then the second book came out and I had so much more fun with this one. Not that the first one wasn't fun, but I'm not as… I'm having more fun with it! And I want to have that feeling more.

That's how I approach my photography - nothing's perfect. Like, let's shoot this space and actually if it is perfect I try to mess it up, almost… I mean my assistant will say, we need to f**k it up. That's why we're adding in more filtered light or making things feel more "home." Maybe home isn't the right term but having that feeling of film. When you're shooting film there's this candid rawness and feeling to it that I'm always drawn to. Maybe that's why we all seem to really appreciate film photography. There's these handmade textures to it and that's not perfect. That's what I like to include in my work.

Are there things about your work that you find easy now that used to be really hard? And I'm curious for both of your answers because I think sometimes your partner can see things more clearly than you can.

Oh, true!

There's a perception that they have.

Em always gives me the best advice and then I end up circling around back to it a year or so later and she was like, Justin, I told you that.

It always takes someone else telling him like, yeah, no, I said the same thing. Now he's gotten better at listening.

What's a piece of advice Emily has given you that transformed the way you were thinking about things?

I mean she was a really strong figure pushing me to do the book. Now she's like Justin, you need to do product.

Well, my biggest thing, to your point, is the point of imperfection. Justin's always like, no, I want to release the right thing. And I'm like, stop. It doesn't need to be. Just put it out there. You need to start. Opening the door is the hardest part, right? Walking through the door is the hardest part. But you need to stop staring at the handle. Just do it and then you'll figure it out and you'll move and you'll keep going. But you have to just start.

He's had wonderful ideas for product over the years. We still haven't really done anything. Well, that's not true. We have jackets and totes, but the real stuff that he wants to do hasn't happened because he spent so much time really thinking about what is it going to be? And I'm just like it can be anything at this point. Just do something.

Now this year he's really like, okay, we're just going to try out a number of things and we're going to see how it goes. There's still intention, but we're trying to be a little less like overthinkers and just doers.

Do you think that comes from a feeling of exposure? For example with Sun at Six, we make products and put it out there and I find it to be a very vulnerable thing to do because you put so much of your heart into something. It's very personal and then for the output to be, is somebody going to pay for this? It can cloud the experience no matter what happens.

Honestly… back to photography. I shot a lot of people in the early part of my career. Then the challenge became, oh, can you shoot spaces? I was like, I mean, I would love to. I don't really do that yet, but I would love to. And similar process, I kept it similar to how I work. Now that I've merged and filled in the gaps between that, it's the same approach. I was like, okay, cool, I want to start figuring out how I can help make products that would fit in these spaces. I'm not a product designer, but that's what I'm drawn to. So why not? And like what Emily was saying, nothing has to be perfect. You just got to go for it. Just like if I started shooting interiors and I wasn't happy with it, it's not like I shouldn't share. I should keep sharing so I get better at it.

I read an interview of yours from the beginning of your photography journey - and I'm sorry I'm going to quote you to yourself - where you said, "I started doing test shoots and, quickly beat myself up though because I wasn't getting the results I wanted. I didn't really think it was for me after a while."

I feel like this is such a common experience for creatives starting out, and there were two quotes that came to mind. One was by Ira Glass, which is this idea that your taste is what gets you into a practice. You love photography, you love pictures, so you get into it, but the raw skills that you have do not match your taste yet. So there's this huge gap between what you're making and what you like and that can be very painful and discouraging.

On the other hand, if you have ever seen the movie 20th Century Women, there's a scene where they're going to see a punk band or some kind of band. And one of the characters says "It's like they have all this feeling and they don't have any skill and they don't want skill because it's really interesting when your passion is bigger than the tools you have to deal with it. It creates this energy that's raw. Isn't it great?"

I always thought those were two such contrasting points of view and your quote reminded me of them. Now that you are where you are in your practice, how do you reflect on that time at the beginning and feeling this gap between what you wanted to see and what you were able to produce?

It brings back a memory right now of watching my son play basketball. He goes and sees the hoop and he wants to dunk. But he can't. Yet. But he wants to dunk.

I got that camera, that Nikon D40 at Costco and I started testing. I found this model from Model Mayhem, this online forum back in the day. The day we decided to shoot, it was pouring in San Francisco so we ended up shooting at the Metreon parking lot. I was beating myself up because I was like, wait, I'm premed, I have a masters degree in public health, and I'm taking photos - I think it was just a crappy day, the weather sucked - and I felt like I wasn't producing the right photos. I'm shooting in a parking lot. I'm doing my best to make this work, salvage the day. And on top of that, I'm using a kit lens. Technically, now that I'm older, I realized the lenses I had at the time were not producing the output that I wanted to achieve. So it was also a technical thing, a learning thing. But my taste…I knew what I wanted to get. So there was this frustration I had but at the end of the day there was this really strong passion that I really wanted to do it, but I just didn't know how to execute it.

The thing I got lucky for is that I was able to just keep going. Well, I got discouraged. I remember going home and thinking I need to sell my cameras. I need to figure something out. This is not it. But then a week goes by and I get a phone call or a text, a message. A modeling agency wants me to come in and take photos for them because they saw those photos. That person printed the photos and shopped it around to all the agencies. They didn't sign them unfortunately, but the agencies wanted me to come. They're like, do you test? We saw the photos and we need photographers that shoot these portraits. I was like, let's do it.

I had this frustration at the time where I knew what I wanted to do, I just didn't have the skill set yet, I wasn't ready yet. It was this deep rooted passion of mine and it was challenging at times but luckily I didn't give up. I just kept going. Once Mimi, the agent, hit me up to do model test shoots and all that, I dove in. It was like a reiteration of going to New York, like I'm investing in this, let's do this, let's keep going.

There's going to be a lot of frustration at first but you have to go all in if you want to do it because that's the only way you'll make it. You can't pursue a photography career, like what I was doing in New York, and just be at 30% or 20%. You have to commit because otherwise it may not work.

It sounds like the frustration is part of the experience too, that's normal. It sounds like everybody will go through it.

It really depends on what you want in life, too. If you want to move to LA and be an actor but you also want to be a musician, then your acting career, if you decide to pursue more music, obviously as a result will fall a little bit behind. For me it was really like, I'm going all in. This is what I want my world to be. I'm going to surround myself. I'm going to make my own library of work that I want to create and this is the world I want to be in.

As I've done my books, I became so drawn to the subjects that I'm shooting because I'm in their world that they're so obsessed about, too. I'm in the world of Truck Furniture, for instance, who, you know, he may not be most inspired by furniture, he's actually not! He's inspired by motocross and all of that somehow influences his furniture. But, I'm entering different people's worlds and that's what I'm drawn to.

I think that is very much apparent when you go through Faculty Department. I feel like the way you immerse readers into your subject's world really comes through and it's such a pleasure to hear about someone in their own words and have this moment where you step into someone's life. But I know you also do commercial work that's not for your own book. Is there a lot of context switching between those things?

In my personal work I want to be - like we were talking about earlier - capturing this natural organic way of living. Then, applying that to my commercial work where we're creating a talent that is to be like a chef. It's equally as fun because then the quality of light plays a character, the interior design plays a character. It's almost like now I'm directing the whole thing and it's a lot of fun because you're telling a story, you're manufacturing a story.

I think with my personal work, I'm documenting, but I'm actually referencing my commercial work for my editorial work because I'm always like, what was the light like in the Bay when I shot with Capella? Let's light the space like that. I'm bringing in all these shared moments from my personal work, I'm applying it to the commercial.

As far as lighting and these kinds of things, did you have formal training on this or is it just all trial and error because you've done it a million times?

None. None. When you meet my crew? They've been such a blessing for me. They know I'm not technical. I don't even know the terminology they're using. Sometimes I don't even hold the gear, the tools, the equipment because I don't want to ruin or mess anything up.

I have the biggest respect for people that have a great technical sense of how to light things and work on stuff like that. I'm the worst. Even with my cameras I'm not even the most technical to be honest. I have this beautiful camera, but…I've seen these great videos of people reviewing cameras. My review would probably be like this is a great camera, you know?

I don't know megapixels. I mean, obviously I do, but I don't know what makes one camera so much better than the other. For me it's all intuition - how do I like using it? For my film work I've used the same cameras for the past decade now. But I'm always open to learning, I love what Zoe is using. I love learning, I'm always learning. I'm open. I love photography, I'm just not technical. But as I mentioned to you before, when I went to Japan and I took Bastian and got him a camera - from that experience I'm more drawn actually to learning to use the camera.

You were saying earlier that Bastian asked you for a camera as a gift when you were in Japan. How did that make you feel? Was that a proud dad moment?

That trip was really inspiring for me on many fronts. It was the first time my family visited me in Japan. I go to Japan quite a bit for work and I've always been telling them how much it has inspired me. Finally, we carved out this window for them to all visit and I even went to the airport to pick them up. I wanted to be there the whole time. It was a trip to celebrate time together, to experience and show them the culture, the sightseeing and all that. But toward the tail end of the trip, Bastian was like, I want to buy a camera. I was like, are you sure?

Usually with expensive things, I'm like Em, can we get Bastian a camera? But this time I was like, I'm canceling the agenda for the afternoon. Sorry, I'll meet you at dinner, but I have a really important errand to run. I gotta take Bastian to the camera store. It just so happened the way the schedule worked Emily was getting a haircut that day. I was with Vivian and Bastian. Vivian was sleeping, but this trip was so important for me to do that Vivian was in my arms, I was carrying her. She's resting at the counter of the camera store. All the Japanese folks are like, can I get her anything? She's sleeping in my arms and I'm trying my best to digest fully what's going on in this moment of Bastian getting his first camera. They were so awesome about it. You know, Japanese culture they make sure to get you a brand new one, endlessly bow…

The whole time it was really great to watch Bastian, especially when he took photos. He started taking photos right away afterwards. I started seeing all of his techniques he was doing that I don't even know how he learned. He started putting elements in the foreground, using his finger and other elements. That was his technique. I didn't teach him that. What I was so inspired by was just the curiosity and that sense of wonder in his eyes. He was just so curious. It reminded me of my first time in Japan. It was like whoa, this is so surreal. He was not only getting a camera but also exploring a new world. And that's the biggest gift that I could ever get him. I never pushed him or ever really talked about him being a photographer. It's just cool that now that when we go on trips he can take photos with me.

I spoke to someone recently who said that her children were a source of creative inspiration, especially when she was feeling burned out, because they see the world so differently than she does. It's very refreshing to her. It sounds a little bit like that was your experience with Bastian getting a camera.

Honestly one of the best things about having children and being around them is the fact that you get to see the world again. You've been to the zoo a million times, right? But the first time, I would say every time, you take your child at different ages you're seeing it all over again. What's interesting, what animals do they like, what are they drawn to? Especially the first time that you do things with them there is something so magical about it because you get to go back to the moments that you enjoy. I think that is one of the wonders of children - you get to reexperience things. It reminds you that things don't have to be as complicated…

…and not as perfect. Nothing has to be perfect! That whole notion again.

Do you feel like your approach to your jobs and creativity has been impacted by your kids in tangible ways that you could point to? For example, if you're on a shoot or when you're thinking about what story you're trying to depict with Faculty Department, has having kids affected your point of view?

I think for Justin in a lot of cases his doing these stories and doing these books is him looking back on his childhood and how he wasn't surrounded by all of these creatives. And part of that especially is this desire to ensure that our children are surrounded by different types of people that have chosen paths that are non-traditional so to speak. Justin has found these stories and people and places that embody that. Bringing them into our lives - through the books, through travel and meeting them - is really giving our kids the greatest gift of, you can be whatever you want to be.

Justin being a photographer was something that was not really encouraged, so for us the most we can do for our kids is to encourage them to follow whatever passion and dream they want and to aid them in that. For Justin, it's really just opening doors and windows and every possible nook and cranny, shining light into spaces that were never available to him or he never knew existed. I think that's been the most incredible part of this. The more tangible side of the impact of the kids on his work is he's always so excited to be like, oh, this person or this place or this store, and sharing it with the kids and seeing their reactions and bringing them into it.

Even earlier you had told me about a few people you had met recently and then when Bastian and I were playing basketball he'd be like, oh I played this guy and whatnot. It is really fun to see their perspective on what you're doing.

I think as I've pursued my books and as I've gotten older and surrounded myself with all these people within the books and adjacent, I am so inspired by what everyone's been doing, what you guys are doing, too. Obviously I do these projects to hopefully share with the world so people can learn more about what people are doing and hopefully be inspired, but also for me to share these ways of living with my kids. That's essentially it.

Tok from Truck Furniture invited us to his home in November. Vivian played guitar with him and we drove around in his car and we got an intimate glimpse into their lives. That is to me the biggest gift I can give my kids because they're learning how these people are living and that's so inspiring to me. Stuff like that is what I want to give my kids. For example, we went to our friend's store, Goodfight, recently. They had a weekend coffee tea thing at their store and I let my kids just go in and check it out. It was cool to see how they were so well taken in there. My friends showed them the back part of the store and there's a hidden, secret basketball hoop back there. Now Bastian, especially Bastian, is super drawn to going back there, he wants to go back and shoot hoops there.

Introducing them to the people that I interact with daily and letting them find their ways to connect…I connect as a photographer, right? Bastian found a way to connect through basketball and his sense of wonder. He unlocked different layers that I didn't even see. I'm just happy that I'm able to encourage this kind of open-minded curiosity.

One thing that always stuck with me is when Tok visited me in New York when I dropped my book, the one that you can't find [editor's note: the first Faculty Department book, which is sold out]. He didn't tell me, he surprised me. The next day we went and got coffee in Soho at the Smile, which is no longer around, and we saw there was a kid's birthday party nearby. They had this huge bounce house kind of thing and he stopped and stared at it and he goes, can I do that? I was like, Tok I don't think so, that's a kid's birthday party. And he got sad. He wanted to do it. He had this sense of curiosity. I was so caught because he's so successful at what he does. We were going to go walk to one of his client's houses because she had bought furniture from him. He was saying, I can't wait to meet him. I looked at the email to help make sure we're going to the right location. It was not a 'him'. I was like Tok, it's a female photographer, she's very, very famous. You can't say 'him'. And he goes, no, I just want to see the furniture.

It was Annie Leibovitz. He sold furniture to her and he just wants to check how the furniture is doing. So he made an appointment to go check it out. So I walked him all the way to Annie's house and I was like, dang, this is crazy. He had this sense of wonder that I was just…

When Bastian was born, he came to visit and he did this funny little frog hop for Bastian and Bastian laughed…and he proceeded to do it probably 50 times.

He didn't care.

If Bastian said again, he did it again. He was just happy to do it and there was a reason why he was the beginning of the books. He's a very special person to us and Justin especially because he represented and represents letting your inner child run free and just following it. I feel like there's so little of that these days that when you find these people, you just hold on to them. I think that's why Tok is so special to us and we have his furniture here because there is something just so purely good about it. I think we both gravitate towards that.

Meeting Tok and getting to know him put Justin on this path of finding similar people and spaces. You talked about how you felt this need to go back into the family business, but maybe it wasn't pressure that you felt. Maybe it was your inner child actually having enjoyed it and you didn't really know and you needed to let that child run. Sometimes we get caught up in the day to day as adults that we forget our inner kid just needs to have space. And that's really what this house has now become: allowing space for people to come and be who they are. We want chickens, we have chickens…

…and ducks, and horses…

Why not! We're lucky enough that we can do all of this but we also like encouraging other people. We love bringing people over, we love bringing people to the horses and the chickens and Bastian loves to play basketball with every single person who comes.

You're good. I saw you play.

It doesn't matter the age. It's almost like a test, the people who don't play basketball…

Outta here!

…the people that come and do the mud table with the kids and get dirty and hold the chickens and really get involved - there is something about it like you leave the adult at the door.

That's why we like you more, you're able to get down and dirty with the kids. Honestly!

It does make a difference for us. People who engage with our kids really have a special place because as a parent, it's wonderful to see your child validated and given time and space because they mean so much to us. But to see other people engage with them and give them their time and space…at the end of the day, that's what's most valuable. Your time and space in people's lives. Seeing our kids fill that for other people, it warms your heart and your soul. You gravitate to those people and you invite them over more, you make time for them. Those are the people that end up becoming your community and your found family because they're not just, oh Justin or, oh Emily, or oh that, right? It's that your family as a whole unit means something to us and we make time for everyone in that family.

I think sometimes people want their work to speak for themselves and it can be sort of tiresome to answer questions about it over and over. And I do think your work does speak for itself. I think your house speaks for itself. I think your kids are so wonderful to be around. But hearing both of you describe the philosophy around your work and home and the way you want to introduce things to your kids, it all does come together and connect. I think that's what I find so mesmerizing about the work that you do, too. There is this very blurred boundary between what's personal and what's work and it all comes from this place of deep and true relationships and connections with people.

Sometimes you can read profiles of intellectuals or creatives and feel like there's this untouchable coldness or isolation around them, versus so many of the people in your lives are creatives and are coming in and out, and their paintings and their works all over your home. I think it is so inspiring to say, hey, you can have that in your life, you could just be doing things with your friends together. It's about bringing more people into that fold and introducing more people into this way of living. I think that openness really comes through in the work you do where it is very cool and it is very inspirational and aspirational but there's such a sense of 'this could be your life too' and you don't need to be afraid. It could really happen to you. It's rewarding hearing you both talk versus just reading or seeing your work online.

Thank you. That was really well said.

It's wonderful because Justin's photography - again from my perspective - that's one of the things that I've always found wonderful about it. No matter what he's shooting, it's relatable. You feel like you're there. You feel like the person. It's this feeling that it's accessible, it's not meant to be this outside thing or you're not looking through the window. You're invited in. I feel like that's always been something that I've found wonderful. And it is very true that pretty much every single person that he's photographed in some way, shape, or form he has become friends with or a closer acquaintance. We've always invited them to our house or to go out to dinner or do something. It's never something that's quick and done. Justin constantly invites people in and it's wonderful, it's really added so much color to our lives. It's why you don't want to stop either because you're like, well, there's more colors out there.

I think it's important to have that openness and that vulnerability. Going back to Tok, and I know we keep bring him up, but I was in Japan shooting for J.Crew and I happen to extend my trip so I could go and explore and shoot other places. I was in Japan and I was so nervous. I emailed Tok's website Truck Furniture and I'm like, hi, I'm a photographer visiting from New York, I would love to meet. His assistants wrote back to me saying yeah, sure. Nine a.m. we open. We'll meet at nine.

So I had my camera on my neck, I showed up at nine. Tok comes and he goes, hi, nice to meet you…so, what do you want? He made time for me, but there's no agenda. The openness of Tok…he showed me around the space, took me out to get coffee, to have lunch at his restaurant. He usually goes for an afternoon swim or fitness in the evening before dinner. He cancelled that and he took me out for dinner. He spent so much time with me. I had the whole day with him.

That trip, that first time meeting him was how I shot my book. It was a sense of me being vulnerable and trying new things but then him also being open. I think that practice, that way of living, of being more flexible and more open, it allows for creativity to spark, it allows for things to happen. You guys could have easily been like, I'll stay in the Bay Area and we'll just do this later. But you didn't, you made moves and there's something so special about that.

I feel like there are times where you can feel so intimidated to do something and when the person who you would normally feel intimidated by - like I've admired your work for so long and I felt intimidated coming in - when the person on the other side is so welcoming and open it's the most incredible surprise and gift. We've been here for three hours already and it's just such a treat.

I think the career paths that we've chosen, it relies so much on having a strong community to keep yourself going. Over the years I've gotten really close with the painter JB because we go through somewhat similar issues, similar things and having someone that understands that way of living and has helped provide balance. Obviously Emily can help me understand things certain ways, and then how JB or you can. We can all understand and add value.